you know i like chuck hagel a lot. and you like him a lot. >> i do. >> we've loved working with him at the atlantic council. i want him to be sec spadef. i'm just explaining for people in washington, and ed certainly knows this, payback is hell. and hagel's learning it just like ted cruz is going to learn it in the future. >> me thinks, though, carl bernstein is really funny that john mccain or lindsey graham would call someone disagreeable at times. is that just me? >> i'll let you say that. i wrote the original cover story for "vanity fair" on john mccain in 1999. and part of the institutional history here is the john tower nomination, which is the other nominee for secretary of defense who was rejected by a partisan democratic witch hunt on grounds that john tower was a womanizer and drank too much. now, those might be somewhat accurate or might not be. but whatever the case, it was a very personal fight like this one. in this case, chuck hagel who we all know how smart he can be, how effective hean be, was awful. i